KeralaBrethren.net
Brethren.in Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Brethren India Discussion Forums > General Forum
  Active Topics Active Topics
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

A little help required

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Asotthama View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 28 January 2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14
  Quote Asotthama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A little help required
    Posted: 28 January 2007 at 7:25am
Hi
   There's something that has been bugging me for some time, and I hope the people here can clear my doubt.
   I once went to a place where I met two Evangelists, who, for 3 hours harped on why I was a sinner and doomed to go to hell(I am not a Christian). I have heard this kind of rhetoric before and didn't care until one of them blithely told me that he was sure that his mother is in hell too, because she had been a non believer.
   Now what I cannot comprehend is what religion can be so merciless that a son does not feel any compunction in sentencing his own mother to hell?
Back to Top
John Miller View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 November 2005
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 199
  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2007 at 2:41am
Dear Assotthama,

May I ask for clarification of your experience.

"I once went to a place....". What was the place and why did you go there?

"..I met two Evangelists..". Was this a private meeting, and if so at whose request?

"..for 3 hours harped on why I was a sinner and doomed to go to hell..". You must either be very curious or very patient if you sat and listened to such a diatribe without asking for some explanation, or did you do so?

"..one of them blithely told me he was sure his mother was in hell too..". I am sorry sir, but I have great difficulty believing the accuracy of this statement. No believer in our Lord Jesus could be "blithe" about the fact that one who was dear to them had died without accepting Christ as Saviour. It would be against nature far less the Spirit of Christ who wept over Jerusalem. It would be a betrayal of Christianity.

"..what religion can be so merciless that a son does not feel any compunction in sentencing his own mother to hell?" You have certainly either not grasped what the Word of God teaches or those who "harped on for three hours" have been in grave dereliction of their duty by teaching falsehood. It is beyond the power or responsibility of any mortal to decide the eternal state of another soul far less sentence them to hell.

The Christian Gospel is unique in that it provides God's answer to man's sin. Other so-called religions and philosophies claim to provide an answer to man's misdeeds; Christ is the answer to man's sinnership and his complete unsuitability to the presence of a God who is not only a God of love but a righteous God. By the simple step of accepting Christ as Saviour, which means that I believed that His death and the precious blood that He shed on the Cross atoned for my sins, past, present and future, God looked upon me as being as righteous in His sight as my sin bearer, Jesus. The resurrection of Jesus from the grave is the proof of His Father's acceptance of the work of atonement and because of this great victory over death, the penalty for sin, I am justified in God's sight.

Because Christ died for all, God's grace is available to all, but we must take the responsibility of availing ourselves of it personally if we are to experience it. Those who choose to reject it will not be held guiltless by Him in the final judgement simply because to offer it cost Him the sufferings and death of His Son. The Bible makes it clear that God takes no pleasure from this, and neither therefore could the believer in Christ do so. If you are really desirous of finding God's blessing through faith in Christ you will do so because the way is simple. All that could prevent you is your own pride.

From my very limited knowledge of God's Word I can point you to the way of salvation as can many others who contribute to this forum. If you reply with answers to the points that I have raised we can perhaps go forward in this conversation.

May God bless you,

John Miller

Edited by John Miller
John Miller
Back to Top
Asotthama View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 28 January 2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14
  Quote Asotthama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2007 at 6:04am
Dear Mr. John Miller,
  Let me make something clear from the outset, I was convent educated in my school and higher secondary, I come from a totally unorthodox family background where I have always been taught to respect all faiths, and I expect similar treatment from others.
  But when I was told by people who weren't illiterate and uneducated peasants but rather well versed in theolgy that my religion is nonsense, that all the people that I look up to have been wasting their time because they were (according to them) "un believers",that every word in the Bible is true and all the other religious books are just fiction, I got confused at first and then angry.
   I joined this forum to know  if this is how Christianity is to be seen and if my perception about it had been wrong all this time.
Back to Top
John Miller View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 November 2005
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 199
  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2007 at 8:29am
Dear Asotthama,

Thank you for your comments. I hope that you feel that you can continue in our dialogue. Would you be prepared to answer my questions so that I can get a better understanding of your situation and personal beliefs.

Please understand that I am genuinely interested in your enquiry. It is clear that you are an intelligent and thoughtful person or you would not have made your initial post, but I would respectfully take you back to the title that you gave this topic, "A little help required." Was that an expression of some inner need that you feel? Do you, for instance, feel that you are seeking after a personal relationship with a God whom really do not yet know?

What is your religion? I ask this question because although you mentioned it you did not specify what it is. I do not want to bombard you with questions or cross-examine you, but if you could tell me a bit more our discussion would be better informed and more intelligent.

I live in Scotland, U.K., and was brought up in a Christian family. I was only a young lad when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Saviour. I have let Him down again and again. I have been unfaithful to Him more times than I can possibly remember. My behaviour, on many occasions, has fallen far below what the behaviour of a born-again Christian should have been. My Saviour has never let me down. He has never been unfaithful to me. He has cared for me, blessed me and led me for over fifty years. If I die before His return I will enter His presence the moment life leaves my body. If not I will hear His mighty shout as He gathers together all who belong to Him through His atoning work, and with them I will be caught up to meet Him face to face and be with Him forever. I need no priest, minister or "holy man" to speak to God on my behalf. In the name and through the worth of Jesus Christ I speak to God many times every day of my life and know that He hears me, listens to me and answers my prayers in the way that is in my best interests no matter what! The Word of God, the book known as the Holy Bible has been the basis for bringing to me the knowledge of God, His purpose for me, His blessings, and has been the guide for my life here, as well as the certainty of eternal blessing. The amazing truth is that although I am a person of no importance whatsoever in this world, the Holy Spirit of God, a divine person, has taken up His residence within me to make the reality of all this a living, vital experience in my daily life and give me the power to walk in a way that is pleasing to this God of love who has blessed me so richly. All this has cost me absolutely nothing. That is my faith. It is steadfast and sure.

All this can be yours. How? The Bible gives the simplest of answers, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

Sincerely,

John
John Miller
Back to Top
tomj View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 10 July 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6
  Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2007 at 10:42am

Dear Assothoma & John Miller,

Let me post the copy fo something I have posted earlier in another forum. I hope this will not disrupt the flow of your dialouge.

MESSAGE OF SALVATION Ė HOW CAN A PERSON BE SAVED?

 

From the New Testament of the Bible, specifically from the book of Romans, I like to share this good news to those who are searching and wondering how to be Ďsavedí? By the term Ďsavedí we mean, receiving forgiveness for the sins and receiving the assurance that you would be spending your eternity in heaven.

 

Romans 3:23 reads, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." We have all sinned. We have all done things that are displeasing to God. There is no one who is innocent. Romans 3:10-18 gives a detailed picture of what sin looks like in our lives. Romans 6:23, teaches us about the consequences of sin - "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." The punishment that we have earned for our sins is death. Not just physical death, but eternal death!

 

Romans 6:23 continues like this: "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:8 declares, "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Jesus Christ died for us! Jesus' death paid for the price of our sins. Jesus' resurrection proves that God accepted Jesus' death as the payment for our sins.

 

Again in Romans 10:9 we read, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Because of Jesus' death on our behalf, all we have to do is believe in Him, trusting His death as the payment for our sins - and we will be saved! Romans 10:13 says it again, "for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins and rescue us from eternal death. Salvation, the forgiveness of sins, is available to anyone who will trust in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

 

Another aspect we can appreciate is the results of salvation. Romans 5:1 has this reassuring message, "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Through Jesus Christ we can have a relationship of peace with God. Romans 8:1 teaches us, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Because of Jesus' death on our behalf, we will never be condemned for our sins. Finally, we have this previous promise of God from Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." This promise is given to us by the Lord Ė which He wouldnít leave us under any such situation!

 

Would you like to be Ďsavedí? If so, here is a simple prayer you can pray to God. Saying this prayer is a way to declare to God that you are relying on Jesus Christ for your salvation. The words themselves will not save you. Only faith in Jesus Christ can provide salvation!  "God, I know that I have sinned against you and am deserving of punishment.  But Jesus Christ took the punishment that I deserve so that through faith in Him I could be forgiven.  With your help, I turn away from my sin and place my trust in You for salvation.  Thank You for Your wonderful grace and forgiveness - the gift of eternal life!  Amen!"

 

If you have sincerely prayed this prayer (or a prayer similar in content acknowledging your helplessness to be saved and the sufficiency of Jesus Christís death on the cross as a substitution for the penalty of your sins) you have become a child of God. If you like me to pray for you and provide you further information please send me an e-mail Ė tomj3162000@yahoo.com

 

Regards,

 

Tom J

 

Regards,

Tom J
Back to Top
John Miller View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 November 2005
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 199
  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2007 at 9:04pm
Dear Assothoma,

Let us imagine a scenario to illustrate the Christian gospel in a very simple way. You are totally impoverised, deeply in debt and in addition dangerous enemies are plotting your destruction. A messenger arrives at your door and tells you that an immensely wealthy and powerful man has heard of your plight and invites you to share his wealth, offers to pay all your debt, and guarantees to destroy those who threaten you.

Will you shut the door in the messenger's face? Will you say you need time to make up your mind? Will you tell the messenger that you think there are other solutions to your problem and that you'll need to think about it? Will you come up with some feeble excuse or perhaps refuse to believe the offer is genuine?

A wise person will choose to accept this maginificent offer of release from poverty, debt and danger. That is what happens when a sinner turns to God in repentance and faith in Christ. Man's poverty is that he is unable to satisfy God's requirement of absolute righteousness. Man's debt is his sin. Man's greatest, most powerful and final enemy is death. Christ alone is the answer to these three seemingly insolluble problems.

At the cross He satisfied a holy God in respect of His righteousness. His righteousness is transferred to all who receive Him.He paid the debt for man's sin in full by His suffering and death, and the witness to that was His precious blood. By rising from the grave He broke forever the power of death over those who believe in Him. For them death is only a continuation in another world of the eternal life that they received when they accepted Christ as Saviour in this world.

My Christian brother, Tomj, has given you precious and valuable scripture that point you to God's way of salvation.

May God, in His grace, open your eyes and bless you richly.

Sincerely,

John

Edited by John Miller
John Miller
Back to Top
Asotthama View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 28 January 2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14
  Quote Asotthama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2007 at 11:33pm

Dear Mr. Miller
    I am an ex-army man and I have served in the Indian army. I was born a Hindu but I have learnt from life not to depend on anyone, not even God.
   You might call me an ďatheistĒ.
    I do not believe in life after death or resurrection or a similar philosophy from any other faith. I have seen people die around me in war, while I stayed alive but I never thought that it was because I was more nobler or more deserving or that He was looking out for me and I honestly don't agree with your "Man's greatest, most powerful and final enemy is death," statement.
   But let us not digress from my initial question.
   My wife died nearly eight years ago, I donít believe she is in heaven waiting for me, but I don't think she is in hell either. I tried to make her life as beautiful as I could and I believe I succeeded.
    I went to the house of these Evangelists at the behest of a friend who said it would be "profitable" for me. I argued with them as best as I could and finally said that I'd never believe that my wife was in hell simply because she had died a "nonbeliever". To this one of them replied with the example of his mother, which I have mentioned in my first post.
    If he hoped to appease me with it, he was greatly mistaken; it disgusted me too deeply to reply back.
Please understand that I am not looking to be "saved", I hope that I have answered your questions and that you will now answer mine without any more digressions.

Thanks

Back to Top
John Miller View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 18 November 2005
Location: Scotland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 199
  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2007 at 1:05am
Dear Assothama,

I appreciate your frankness. The title you gave to this discussion was, "A Little Help Required." I have given you a simple testimony of my own faith in Jesus Christ. My Christian friend has suggested a few verses of scripture for your help. On the other hand you claim to be an atheist.

It seems to me there are a number of inconsistences in your contributions. However I respect your request not to digress. How can I help you? What is your question to me?

Kind regards,

John Miller

Edited by John Miller
John Miller
Back to Top
Asotthama View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 28 January 2007
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14
  Quote Asotthama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2007 at 5:53am

Dear Mr. Miller
  I don't need help to attain salvation if thats what you mean by "help". As I mentioned in my posts there were things said in the meeting with the Evangelists which disturbed me greatly and I need help to understand if their understanding of the faith is right and I had been wrong all along when I had assumed that the God people believe in loves everyone regardless of weather the person "believes" in him or not and wouldn't condemn him to hell(assuming such a place exists) for it.
   Let me repeat my questions for furthur clarification
   1.Can a religion be so merciless that a son does not feel any compunction in sentencing his own mother to hell?
   2. I was told by people who weren't illiterate and uneducated peasants but rather well versed in theolgy that my religion is nonsense, that all the people that I look up to have been wasting their time because they were (according to them) "un believers". I want to know how a faith can allow such bigotry?

    You might want to point out that being an atheist it shouldn't matter if someone thrashes my religion, well it doesn't, but not when someone does it to show that his faith is superior and others are simply "pagans".

 

Back to Top
doghter_of_zion View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 June 2006
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 153
  Quote doghter_of_zion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2007 at 10:03pm

Dear Mr Asotthama,

Greetings. I never interacted with you as I saw bro John was answering you.

But I beg bro John of the permission to write a few things.

Iím a girl from a Hindu Brahmin(conservative) background. I was like you in my thinking, as I never believed in Heaven or Hell, thinking that they were myths, and that they reflect state of man. I had a very scientific bent of mind but believed all the Hindu philosophies. All this was alright till I encountered Jesus Christ personally in my life.

I had read a copy of the New Testament, and it appeared to me that the God who created us was the holy, righteous, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent God.

He had made us to be like him, but I had sinned and His righteousness demanded that I should die. Well I was never afraid of physical death. But reading the Bible I realized that spoke of the eternal damnation, in spending eternity without God.

I realized that I was a sinner and Jesus Christ had died for my sins, and I had accepted Him. Today I can say that Iím a saved child of God, which is no doubt by His grace.

Well coming to your questions, let me say a few things.

Indeed God is love and at the same time, God is righteous, holy Judge. So His righteous judgement claims that all sinners should die. But God is also a God of love. So the Bible:

John 3:16 teaches us: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have everlasting lifeĒ

From this we know that because God loved us, the provision at the Cross was made. Thus Cross is the manifestation of Godís love. Also we see that if any believe on Him, he will not perish, but will have the privilege of living in the presence of God throughout eternity. Itís a very personal thing. If I believe, God has promised me to give eternal life. If my mother wants to have fellowship of God, she will have to accept Him as her personal Savior. If she refuses to, then she not-only turns her back to Godís love, thereby sinning against Him.

Now about your question was regarding religion.

Religion is manís attempt to reach God. But the problem is while man is a sinner, God is holy. So no-matter how man tries to please God, its just not possible (tell me if you need further clarification).

But in the Bible we find that God had seen man in his wretched condition, whereby he is heading helplessly to hell, due to his sins, He came down to make a way for us. This is not a religion. For me Christianity is my faith.

Since man is by birth a sinner, no religion in the world can save him, as there is no other solution to the sin problem. Since you are a sinner, there is no way you can reach out to God except through faith in Lord Jesus Christ. When God sees you, he sees you in your sins. But those who are in Christ, the Lord see them through Christ. Thus since we believe that Lord Jesus died for our sins, thus the penalty of our sins are paid by Him. And also when we approach God, God sees that the righteousness of Jesus Christ, who alone is sinless, his righteousness is imputed on us. Thus God see us as perfect righteous being, and thus God has adopted us, and we can call Him as our Father.

You can also be a child of God if you realise that you are a sinner and Christ had died for your sins and He was resurrected, as a proof our Godís acceptance of the atoning work of Lord Jesus. Today He is in Heaven. You know why I believe in Heaven and Hell, as One who has come from Heaven has told us of it. So believing His word, I believe in the existence of Heaven and Hell.

May the Lord have grace upon you that you may come to know Him in a much better way.

God bless you,

Tinka



Edited by doghter_of_zion
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

powered by Sansnet.com

HOME
HOME | ABOUT US | NEWS & EVENTS | KB FORUMS | ONLINE BIBLE QUIZ | ONLINE CHAT | PRAYER BOOK | MATRIMONIAL | CLASSIFIEDS | BIBLE CONTEST | EVANGELISTS DIRECTORY | ASSEMBLIES DIRECTORY | BRETHREN INSTITUTIONS | MP3 MUSIC | MP3 AUDIO MESSAGES | BIBLE WALL PAPERS | VISITOR'S COMMENTS | CONTACT US