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Asotthama View Drop Down
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  Quote Asotthama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2007 at 2:59am

Dear Ms.Tinka
  Could I suggest that you refrain from using phrases like "I had a very scientific bent of mind but believed all the Hindu philosophies"? They really don't make any sense.
  Anyway, you've said a lot but at the end I am right where I started. 

  I don't care how big a sinner I am but it disgusts me when a so called "reborn child of God" calmly condemns his mother to hell. If anyone can answer my questions in plain language without quoting scripture, plese help me otherwise let's call it quits.

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  Quote sambudhanoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2007 at 4:55pm

Dear Asotthama

 

The people who talked you said that the unbelievers go to hell, is not from them, but from the Living God. No human can condemn or save any person from going to heaven or hell, they can share/express the truth.(As you are a ex-army person, when you selected to army definitely you passed certain written as well as physical test, in order to get selected) The Living God set a medium to get saved and to go heaven, it is written in the Word of God. When one person die as an unbeliever he/she will go to hell, this is our belief and written in the Word of God, the Bible.

 

 No people willing to send their parents or close relatives to sent to hell, rather anybody violate the rules of God they will end up to the hell. Hell is prepared for the satan as per the bible and unbelievers also end up there.

 

All religion is found in order to get salvation (Moksha) as all the religion says the human beings are sinners.

 

In order to get salvation and to go to heaven our God provided the medium as Jesus Christ, whoever believe in him shall eternal life and go to heaven, this is our belief and written in the Bible.

 

Joh 3:15  that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17  For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Joh 3:18  "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

This is the standard set by God, whoever believe in Jesus Christ will have eternal life and whoever does not will be condemned.

 

As you do not believe in God, Heaven, Hell etc. you may not be able to accept it. Even though, if you have a desire in your heart that if there is a God and let me understand, then God will reveal you the truth.

 

Regards

Samkutty N. George.

 

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George P. Koshy View Drop Down
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  Quote George P. Koshy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2007 at 1:45am

Dear 'asotthama,'

You placed two questions earlier and let me quote them,

---<<Let me repeat my questions for furthur clarification
   1.Can a religion be so merciless that a son does not feel any compunction in sentencing his own mother to hell?
   2. I was told by people who weren't illiterate and uneducated peasants but rather well versed in theolgy that my religion is nonsense, that all the people that I look up to have been wasting their time because they were (according to them) "un believers". I want to know how a faith can allow such bigotry?">>---

I don't know who sentenced whose mother in your first question.  I also need some help in understanding your second question.  Please help.  Your questions were written in a very high level of abstraction and should be brought down to the level of our experience.

I understand that your religion is Hinduism.  Therefore, you should believe in a place called hell for sinners.  We read about NARAKAVARNANA in Hinduism.  You also should believe in at least one god.

I wait to hear your explanation on your questions.

Shalom malekim!!!
George P. Koshy
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John Miller View Drop Down
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  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2007 at 2:17am
Dear Major Kumar,

I trust that you will bear with me using your proper name and title. I feel more comfortable and respectful doing this rather than your user name.

In the world today there is a multitude of beliefs and philosophies regarding the relationship of man with some supreme being. Because I am a Christian I cannot and will not give credence to any except the revelation of the one true God in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ. The reason for this is that I have an unshakeable faith, not in my own efforts to please God, but in the atonement for my sin accomplished by Jesus at the Cross nearly two thousand years ago. Man's efforts to make himself acceptable in God's sight are fatally flawed by the fact that he is a sinner. We are sinners by birth and sinners by practise. This is what I read in God's Word, the Holy Bible.

I accept, but do not rejoice in the fact that you do not believe in God, and that according to your own words to Tinka, you have no conviction of sin. That is your choice and the amazing thing is that you have this choice because God, whose existence you deny, gave it to you. This God demonstrated His infinite love towards you, and I mean you personally, by allowing His own beloved Son to suffer and die in your place on the Cross at Calvary. In His infinite righteousness God cannot permit sin in His presence. If it was not dealt with, there would be no alternative to Him bringing the human race to an end because of the the affront that sin presents to His absolute righteousness and holiness.

Now if we look at your assertion regarding the alleged mercilessness of the Christian faith, let me put this fact before you. The death of Jesus Christ on the Cross, His precious blood shed there, and His resurrection is the proof that God is a God of mercy, love and infinite compassion. No human can atone, either for his own sin or the sin of another. God in His word tells us that Jesus has done this once and for all, on behalf of all mankind. All you and I have to do is acknowledge our sinful condition, and in repentance accept what Jesus has done on our behalf. It is important to note that repentance is not saying "sorry" to God for our sins. It is a complete turning round in our estimation of sin, coming to God's view of its seriousness, and acknowledging the cost to Him of dealing with it at the Cross.

So great was the price that Jesus had to pay, that God cannot overlook or pardon any who reject this provision of His grace. If He did He would be admitting that the death of His Son was, after all, unnecessary. If you care to read the four accounts of the death of Christ in the four Gospels of the Bible, you will note that Christ suffered at the hands of man for righteousness sake. These sufferings although dreadfully brutal and completely unjustified were as nothing compared to His sufferings at the Hands of His Father. This suffering was for sin. One scripture tells us that "he was made sin for us". ( I admit this is a quotation, but I cannot think of any other way of conveying the fact.) That is that He actually became the thing that a Holy God could not countenance, and God's full unmitigated wrath was poured out upon Him. Because He was sinless in His own Person he was the only one who could stand in the sinner's stead and pay the price of sin in full.

You have a simple choice as does every other man and woman, to accept this or reject it. In the strange and unfathomable mystery of God's wisdom, every one is given this choice. If you refuse it, I cannot condemn you, nor can any other mortal. That is the truth. The one who refuses the testimony to the revelation of God's love in Jesus condemns himself. In the last book of the Bible, Revelation, we are told of a final judgement, when the demands of God's righteousness will have to be answered. Every detail of the lives of all who appear at this judgement throne will be reviewed and a search in the divine records will be made to establish whether or not they have individually availed themselves of the redemption offered in Christ. It is on that fact that every one will have to answer to the One who sits on the throne.

Major Kumar, God cannot overlook sin. He has paid a price far greater than you or I could ever quantify to remove it from His presence, but His love for you is such that you can be eternally free of its curse, its guilt and its penalty now and for all eternity. To believe in Jesus Christ is the only way.

I do not know what words were spoken, or what was the inference in them, when you had your conversation with the Evangelists, but this I know on the authority of God's word, that no mortal can condemn another to Hell.

All that I have said to you in this reply is based on the Holy Scriptures of Truth, the Word of God, but I have refrained from any quotations as you asked except the one for which I gave an explanation. If you want confirmation, however, I can enter into a fuller discussion, giving exact passages of scripture for everything that I have written. I can see that you are troubled by this matter, and it is my genuine desire to be of service to you if that is possible.

Your servant,

John Miller


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John Miller View Drop Down
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  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 July 2007 at 10:25pm
Dear Major Kumar,

In the thread relating to Darwinism you stated in your post addressed to me "This will probably fall on deaf ears, but I do want reasons to believe."

Are you prepared to tell me why you want reasons to believe? I can assure you that my ears are far from deaf to a genuine request for help regarding the Christian Gospel truth as clearly set out in God's word. I do not profess to be a scholar or a teacher of repute, but I do have a desire to share my faith with you if your desire for help is real.

Kind regards,

John Miller
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  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2007 at 9:24pm
Dear Major Kumar,

"I hope you are able to justify yourself when you are before Jesus"

Who wrote these words? You did my friend. This is very interesting because if you meant what you wrote you are making certain remarkable admissions in spite of your avowed atheism. The first admission is that we will one day stand before the man called Jesus. The second admission following on from that is that this means that Jesus is alive. That in turn means that He rose from the dead! You are also admitting the possibility that we will have to give an account of ourselves to Jesus.

In view of these inescapable conclusions do you not think that you need to examine your so-called atheism and perhaps revise your stance on this profession?

Your servant,

John Miller



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Joy Boy View Drop Down
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  Quote Joy Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2007 at 8:26am

 

asotthama has made some interesting points.

 

Interestingly enough, my coworker and I have had some interesting discussions about the nature of God.  Some of my thoughts may be relevant here.

 

To me, with respect to the concept of God, there are 3 options:

1) There is no god

2) God exists, but he is absent. i.e. doesn't care what happens, or is simply non-personal

3) God exists, and he is a personal God.

 

I won’t address options 1 and 2 for now.

 

Most of the world's religions assume Option 3.  Now if God exists, and if he is a personal God, what does he require of us? Anything?  You asked about the nature of God that:

 

Originally posted by ”asotthama”

Now what I cannot comprehend is what religion can be so merciless that a son does not feel any compunction in sentencing his own mother to hell?

 

Firstly, if God does exist, by very definition of god, he is larger than human, and if he’s if not all powerful, then very close to it, right?  If this is the case, then why cannot God make his own rules?  Indeed, a God that demands a substitutionary blood sacrifice sounds terrible, and a God that separates mother from son in heaven and hell, and a God that even would create a place such as hell sounds very merciless.

 

If we define God in our own image, limit him by what we deem to be fair, then what kind of god is he?  He's merely a larger-than-life human creation. 

 

What you need to answer for yourself is: if God exists, what does He demand of you?  How can you answer this question?  You can explore all the world's religions, sure.  But most all of them deal with the same thing in differing forms: a human attaining to some standard of "goodness" to achieve paradise of some sort.  Christianity, on the other hand, says, there's no way to attain this standard.  Why? There are many problems: 1) how do you define this standard?  Who says your "goodness" is better than someone who hasn’t attained it? Who says your "goodness" is even good enough?  Is it a proactive goodness (like serving the poor) or reactive goodness (like not doing bad)?  Is it service, or simply the absence of "badness"?  What is badness?  Is stealing to feed my family considered “badness”? But what about the noble act of making sure my family is fed, isn’t that “goodness”, regardless?  You can see that these questions are in itself contradictory.  Therefore, you can also see that this "merciless" problem exists in all faiths.   All faiths have condemnation of some sort.

 

Therefore, There are only 2 options:

a) Either all faiths and religions are meaningless, or,

b) such a standard I described in the above paragraph exists, but that standard is absolute and utter perfection.

 

If you select a), you have brought yourself back to option 2) above.  If not, then we must do some further thinking:

 

Anyone who has spent any time around his fellow man knows that absolute perfection is not attainable.  Incidentally, this is why Christians declare all mankind to be sinners.

 

So, how then do we respond to God? This is where the Bible comes in, and why the message of redemption through Jesus on the cross is so important.   In the same way that a poor man can appear rich by putting on rich clothes, in effect, we have Christ who has been our substitute, and has taken the penalty for being substandard.  But since he was God, his perfection is the rich clothes we poor people wear.  This is the message of Christianity: that we cannot live up to God's standards, and that God had to come down to earth to take on the penalty of doing so, our “poor clothes” are gone, and now we have God’s perfection as our admission to heaven.  It is nothing that we have done, or could do, but all because of Jesus’ death.   However, we cannot get in, unless we shed our rags, and put on the rich clothes.   This is the message of the cross.

 

So, what does this mean for your mother?   Unfortunately, I have no idea.  God alone is the judge of man, and it is He alone who can see the “clothing” of the individual.  

 

Hopefully, you have something to think about.  I have specifically not addressed options 1) and 2) above, since I am not qualified to do so.  Personally, options 1) and 2) are counter intuitive.   Feel free to cut this post to shreds, as you see fit. J Hopefully we can address your questions and concerns.

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John Miller View Drop Down
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  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2007 at 2:01am
Dear Major Kumar,

I await your response to my posts. The genuiness of your assertion that you really want reasons to believe stands or falls by whether or not you are prepared to seek these reasons with diligence.

Your servant,

John
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