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John Miller View Drop Down
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  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2007 at 3:54am
Dear brother Samuel,

Repentance must precede New Birth, as far as my understanding goes. The Holy Spirit through the Word of God brings about the conviction of sin in the consciences and hearts of men and women, at the same time directing them to Christ. This may be a sudden "Damascus road" experience or it may be a longer more gradual awakening to the blessing available through trusting in Christ. God works with each person individually because He knows the thoughts, character and circumstances of each.

It would be inconceivable to me to think that someone who was truly born again had not first known true repentance. The Apostle Paul is a great example of this.

Your brother in Christ,

John
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  Quote nelnob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2007 at 4:40am

Dear Br. John in Christ,

<<Repentance must precede New Birth, as far as my understanding goes>>

Yea brother it is the fact, for a born again believer, but repentance alone is happening in all sects of people, there is a transformation in ones character at a moment of his life, and there is a visible change in or her character after they have  the repentance, let it be any religion, there are many in this world who are more pious than any believer, but are not saved, and ,many who have been saved at a moment of the time, has a transformation in his/her life but on the longer run, forgets about the repentance and get mingled with the glitters. Is that a true repentance.

 

Luke:13-

Repent or Perish

 1 There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

What is this repentance about,

Luke:15 :7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance

10 Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

What are the repentance Jesus Christ is referring to, sure it is from sin.

A normal man worldy repentance many does and contninues till the end , but a born again believers repentance leads to a salvation , when he is born again, but repentance in the act remain fluctuated in the longer run , why I am writing this is that from the last few months , it is very much a matter of prayers and concern, the increase in the divorce rate of born gain beleivers families is alarmingly increasing, born again believers jump into major forgery and corruption cases,children of born again believers lead immoral life, commits suicide, believers have a spoiled testimony due to the infight in the assemblies, can we say that they have truly repented, at the time of salvation.

 

Yours in Christ

Samuel.V.J



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  Quote sambudhanoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2007 at 5:21pm

Dear Bro. Samuel

 

There are different types of repentance.

 

Godly sorrow or sorry in a godly manner, produces repentance; which is the one leading to Salvation.

 

2Co 7:9  Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.

2Co 7:10  For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.

 

Godly sorrow means repentance towards God, it is happening because of the convincing ministry of Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit convince about sin, justice and judgement, repentance towards God happened in one’s heart which leads to Salvation.  The repentance toward God allow them to put their faith in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, this will be a permanent one.

 

Act 20:21  testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

Repent = turn to, turn over etc.  This turning to God, repentance leads to Salvation.

 

Act 9:35  So all who dwelt at Lydda and Sharon saw him and turned to the Lord.

 

Act 26:20  but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

 

Whereas we can see there are other repentance one is the John’s disciples repentance.

 

Act 19:2  he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."

Act 19:3  And he said to them, "Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism."

Act 19:4  Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

Act 19:5  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

 

There are worldly sorrows and repentance, which Natural Man shows it may be temporary and should not lead to Godly repentance and salvation. I know some people went to Catholic Shrine “Potta” and they have some repentance and they leave the drinking of hard liquor and smoking etc. but this will not no way leads them to Salvation, until and unless they turn to God and put faith in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, Salvation and inheritance of Eternal Life is not possible.

 

Yours in Christ.

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  Quote nelnob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2007 at 10:52pm

Dear brother Samkutty in Christ

<< I know some people went to Catholic Shrine “Potta” and they have some repentance and they leave the drinking of hard liquor and smoking etc. but this will not no way leads them to Salvation>>  yes brother that is what I was telling, they repented thier nature and sometime continues till thier end unaware about salvation, and believers repentance end up with salvation, though are aware about everything but still acts that we are unaware, many a time we live more immorally than the unsaved person, we were born again long time again and repented at that time, but lives like a worldly man at a later stage, can we say that is proper repentance, often we take our salvation for granted, and Jesus Christ himself say in his open air ministry , repent or perish, we repented and became a new person , and later we go back more worser than the old person, what type of repentance is it.

 

Yours in Christ

Samuel.V.J

 

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  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2007 at 3:33am
Dear brethren,

Repentance is what God requires first. The reason is simple. Sin separates man from God and if that distance is to be removed man must face up to the fact that he is a sinner. He must judge that sin in the presence of God and in the presence of the atoning sufferings of Jesus must realise how abhorrent sin in any form is to God. The measure of this is the cross of Christ. The sinner must see sin as God sees it, or else he can never accept that sin required the supreme sacrifice of the Lamb of God.

Sorrow for sin may well precede this but true repentance is much more. It is a complete turning around in the sinners judgement of what God finds abhorrent to Him, because of his holiness. The measure of our repentance before God is the measure of our appreciation of Christ as sin-bearer.

I believe that the depth of our repentance is reflected in the strength of our faith. We see a wonderul example of that in the life and service of the Apostle Paul. Many times in his writings he comes across his former sins and his feeling of unworthiness because of them, but what faith he manifests in times of trial and affliction. He speaks of "our momentary and light affliction". I doubt that I would have described such affliction in that way!

Your brother in Christ.

John
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  Quote nelnob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2007 at 3:52pm

Dear Br. John in Christ,

<<The sinner must see sin as God sees it, or else he can never accept that sin required the supreme sacrifice of the Lamb of God. >>

There are two types , apostle Paul classifies humans, one with the Works of the flesh, and the other with fruits of Spirt, and sure the fruits of Spirit are for those who have repented , born again and has been saved.

Galatians:5

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

Brother it would have been a better place in this world till our Savior come agains, if we born again believers all had the above mentioned fruits of spirit and stayed as born again beleivers one in Christ, a man before becoming a child of God has majority of the terms mentioned in the works of flesh, but when he repents and become a child of God by the sacrifice of the cross, we should have all the fruits of spirit, but many a times we have both of it(hatred & love), (joy & wrath), (strife & temperance, meekness) and we have the excuse that we are living in this gentile world, and our God is gracious and will forgive us whenever we do the mistakes, when we reconcile, but how long we can pain the Body of christ, when we are in Christ, we ought to have the fruits of spirit, hence having a testimony amd through our lives many may know who our Savior is.

And due to the above combination of works and fruits, many a places we dont have the testimony, we preach many things, when coming to practical life, we cannot exercise it. So can we say it is a true repentance, .

 

Yours in Christ

Samuel.V.J


 



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John Miller View Drop Down
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  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2007 at 11:36pm
Dear Samuel,

True repentance is an inward matter. Showing the "fruits of repentance" is the outward evidence of an inward change. The first such "fruit" is faith in Christ.

"Repentance only God requires from man,
And faith in Christ,
His well-beloved Son."

Your brother in Christ,

John

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  Quote nelnob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2007 at 2:39pm

Dear Br.John in Christ,

<<True repentance is an inward matter. Showing the "fruits of repentance" is the outward evidence of an inward change.>>

If the fruits of Spirt mentioned in Galatians is not evident in his/her outward character, if they cant demonstrate the outward evidence of an inward change , can we assume they dont have a inward change or repentance, that he/she is not a born again believer.

Luke -3

7Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

 8Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

 9And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

James 3

 

 9Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

 10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

 11Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

 12Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

 13Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

 14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

 15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

 16For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

 17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

 

 

 

Yours in Christ

Samuel.V.J



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  Quote John Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2007 at 7:03pm
Dear Samuel,

I believe that we must be careful in avoiding saying anyone is saved or unsaved based only on our observation of their behaviour. Paul says to Timothy in ch. 2 of his second letter, "The Lord knows those that are His.." But then he adds, "Let every one who names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity."

As far as I understand this means that only Christ knows who really belongs to Him and is under the shelter of His precious blood, but when it comes to Christian fellowship we must be prepared to come to a judgement as to the walk and behaviour of those who claim it.

Your brother in Christ,

John
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  Quote nelnob1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2007 at 7:23pm

Dear br.John in Christ,

<<I  believe that we must be careful in avoiding saying anyone is saved or unsaved based only on our observation of their behaviour>>

Sure brother I am aware about it, I will write my reply with an example, several places in a building in two room just a partition apart , there are brethren assmeblies , both worship the Lord as per the biblical norms at the same time, in several assemblies in one room at different sides, several assemblies the worship table is not kept, and they are seperated due to the infight of the assemblies and the ego clash between the brethren, even the brethren dont shake hands, they turn away the heads when they come face to face, which type of spiritual fruits we are pertaining?Jealousiness and vengeance in our attitude, and we worship the Lord as if we are ignorant about everything, just like cat closing its eyes and sipping milk and thinking that  no one knows it.

 

If we all have a real repentance, we would not never ever allow the body of Christ the assembly of saints to be seperated at any cost.We would be humble and submissive to each other, but it doesnt happen nowdays. I am not writing this to criticise anyone, I would keep always in mind your spiritual guidance , but all those who read this posts please dont let the body of Christ (our assembly) where we gather be seperated due to our differnce of our opinions and for our benefits.

 

Yours in Christ

Samuel.V.J

 



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